Believing they would be paid a fortune for having sex with women, hundreds of Indian men scammed out of cash

The thing which really convinced me that it couldn't be for real was when the Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak, says that his government has generously decided to make this all tax-free. Yes!

That's the part I thought that as well. Right, now I know it's not true. Exactly.

Smashing Security. Episode 355. Fishy Rishi. 23andMe. and the labour of love with Carole Theriault and Graham Cluley. Hello, hello and welcome to Smashing Security, episode 355. My name's Graham Cluley. And I'm Carole Theriault. And Carole, it's time to roll out some of the old guests once again. We've dusted him off.

I thought it was going to be red carpet. I'm, is he worth it?

We've brought him out on his bath chair. Scrape the barrel.

Thom Langford. Hello, Thom. Hello. Hello, everybody. Welcome back, Thom. Why, thank you. It's been so long. I thought you'd forgotten about me. We tried. We tried.

First, let's thank this week's wonderful sponsors, Collide and Vanta. It's their support that helps us give you this show for free. Now, coming up in today's show, Graham, what do you got?

I'm going to be talking about something fishy about Rishi.

Why would you say something fishy about Sunak Rishi?

Because his name isn't Sunak Rishi. His name is Rishi Sunak.

Yeah, but OK. What about you, Thom? Well, firstly, if I'd known we were rhyming, I would have put some more thought into this. Let's just say I'm going to be talking about victim blaming.

And I'm going to share how you can become a better man by screwing for coin. All this and much more coming up on this episode of Smashing Security.

Now, chums, chums, we've had Christmas. We've had New Year. I wonder, over Christmas, did you see that little video skit put out by the British Prime Minister, Mr Rishi Sunak? Did you see him being home alone at Downing Street? Oh, how we laughed. It was a sort of what Rishi Sunak gets up to over Christmas video, which they put out on the social media. Did you see that?

No. What was in it?

Tell us. Oh, it was. Did you see it, Thom? I didn't. I try and avoid that awful man. And it's all cost. Well,

it tried to be humorous. It was all about him saying, oh, am I the only one here in an empty office? Am I the only one here? He was seen bowling against stacked cans of Coca-Cola or pouring syrup on spaghetti while watching the movie Elf. And Larry the Cat, he made an appearance as well.

Is he a bit like Schwarzenegger? Does he have a penchant for acting? Is he good at it?

I think many of them are used to pretending to be something they're not. He's just desperate. He's not. He's loaded, isn't he?

Oh, he is loaded. Oh, he's loaded. He's just desperate to carry on being prime minister. He'll do anything.

He's the richest prime minister we've ever had. He's got about, I think it's 800 or 900 million pounds in the bank, he and his wife. Come on. Churchill must have been richer than him. No, no. No, he's taken it to a whole new level, Rishi Sunak. And anyway, if you saw this video, how we laughed and laughed as we wondered how much money had been spent filming it for his own personal ego, pushing it out on social media. He said, oh, that's good. That's that's great that they're doing that. It's not as though we're having some sort of. Do you not think it's what?

Do you not think it's nice that a prime minister or president sends out a hey, happy Christmas to everybody or happy holidays?

I don't mind if they want to produce a Christmas card. I don't think you need a full video production. Do you remember when Boris Johnson riffed off Love Actually? Remember that horrendous scene in Love Actually when the guy turns up on Keira Knightley's doorstep claiming to be carole singers? Boris Johnson did something like that. And you just thought, oh, for fuck's sake.

It's just embarrassing, Frank. I think you guys are jealous. I think you're jealous. Well, well, I think if it's done well, if it's done properly and if it's done in the right spirit, you know, I can cope with it. I used to work for a very large company where the CEO used to do a funny Christmas message every year. And it was very well produced and very high quality production, very well written. But these are just cheap gags. It's cynical and I dislike it and I dislike him and I dislike them.

Well, that's just a lot of opinion we're getting on the show this year. It feels like I'm on the grumpy old men show. Okay.

Well, you woke me up from my afternoon nap? Not just my afternoon nap, from my... What do you call it? What bears do when they go to sleep for a long time? Hibernation. Hibernation, there you go. Yeah. You can't even remember, it's the menopause. Well, it's a menopause. Not far off, actually. Not far off.

Well, maybe Rishi Sunak needs to hire a new social media team because what we do know is that not only is the quality questionable of the humour, but also other people are having much more success sharing videos of him on social media without forcing him to spend any time away from his job or using up taxpayers' money to make the darn thing. Because there have been over 100 deep fake video ads impersonating PM Rishi Sunak on Facebook and Instagram in the last month. and they've been seen by the 400,000 people, despite explicitly breaking some of Meta's ad policies. Well, colour me surprised. So more people are seeing the scam ones than the real one. Now, I managed to...

Was he able to share the video on official channels? Who, the scammers? No, no, no. Rishi Sunak, when he did his little Christmas video. So he really punked it out and no one looked at it, but 400,000 people looked at the fakies.

His little skit probably got about 250,000 views on Facebook, but 400,000 people, over 400,000 people have seen these deep fake versions instead.

Well, I think it just tells me that his SEO team and his social media team is not doing a very good job generally speaking but it also raises up matters incompetence about combating deep fake.

Yeah you'd think there's one person that you would try not to piss off it might be the president or prime minister of a country right.

So I want to talk about one of these deep fake videos so in one of these a BBC presenter I think it's Sarah Campbell she appears to announce some breaking news and she says that people up and down the country are outraged to discover that for several months, Rishi Sunak has secretly been earning colossal sums of money from an app that was initially intended for ordinary citizens of the United Kingdom.

People are outraged to learn that for several consecutive months, Rishi Sunak has secretly been earning colossal sums from a project that was initially intended for ordinary citizens.

Ordinary I love it ordinary and in fact we all know he's earning lots of money anyway through his missus and all of his other interests so well the claim is that Elon Musk oh we love.

Elon Musk don't we Elon Musk oh god don't get me started he has launched an app for the British people which autonomously using AI conducts stock market transactions so it will invest money for you. It will get money out. So you can make a lot of money. And so just give us your money and we'll make you lots of money. And so the argument is that what's been claimed is that Rishi Sunak has been using this for months. He hasn't given it to the British people, despite lovely Elon writing this thing. And so the news report crosses to Rishi Sunak, who's making an apology, a deep faked apology. I want to assure you that we simply decided to test how this application works on ourselves in order to avoid risking the money of ordinary citizens. Now, I personally can vouch for the reliability of this investment platform and express gratitude to Elon Musk for choosing our country as the first one where this application will operate. Yes, indeed, I and my surroundings have been earning through this application on our mobile phones for several months, but I assure you that was the plan all along. We needed to thoroughly test everything because we had no moral right to conduct testing on our citizens. What if things didn't work out and people lost their money? Then the blame would fall on me and my team, and I really didn't want that. As for the application itself, I am pleased to announce that starting this month, access to it is literally open to all citizens of Britain. And he says all you have to do is invest 200 pounds and you are guaranteed to make around 25,000 pounds per month for life.

You see you told us they were deep fakes before but watching that video you can kind of see some fuzzy action going on around the mouth right can you.

Yeah a little bit and he slurs one of his words as well although that could just be the Christmas tipple.

I certainly think this is a lot better than that. Do you remember that Vladimir Zelensky deepfake which came out? It's very good quality. It's certainly up there, but the content gives it away, not so much the visual and the audio quality. Yes. The BBC presenter is deepfaked as well.

That's the part I thought that as well. Right? Now I know it's not true. Exactly. It has to be a con.

Well, the money-saving expert, Martin Lewis, he's been sort of pushing back against all this because he's a trusted voice in this space. You know, a lot of people who are going through financial hardship or are struggling to pay bills or whatever, they listen to him and he's a staunch advocate for consumer rights and all that sort of thing. So when they copy him, when they deepfake him, it can sound like he's actually helping you out because he comes up with some amazing workarounds and loopholes and stuff like that to save you a few quid.

But it's also crazy, right? Because you're using a prime minister, you're using people like Elon Musk, and these are powerful dudes, right? They're way more powerful than the likes of you and me. And if they can't get them off the socials, who can?

And what's Meta? What's Zuckerberg doing about this? Well, it's Zuckerberg, it's Meta who should be dealing with this. Yeah. It should never have stayed up for more than a couple of hours. Because all it should take is one person to report it. A human looks at it and goes, well, unless they decided to invest £200, of course, but just looks at it and goes, this is obviously fake. This is obviously wrong. But they're not doing it. They're just not. They're too busy taking the scammer's money.

And it's even easier on Twitter for these paid deepfake videos to be successful because, of course, Twitter's so strapped for cash, it will take advertising dollar from anybody at the moment, which is why all our timelines are filled up with scams or nazis or whatever other ghastliness it is at the moment.

Hey, nazi money's as good as anybody else's money.

Says the Swiss Bank Thom Langford LLC. Exactly Thom, what have you got for us this week? So I've got this interesting take on blame the victim. So in our world of information and security we are often told about all of these stories of companies being hacked and individuals being hacked and very often the companies are attacked for not doing the right thing and individuals are attacked for not doing the right thing etc etc and we all pile on and then there's another resurgence of don't blame the victim they're all criminals here blah blah. So this is an interesting one because it's related to a company that was hacked and has been hacked a number of times, but it was hacked fairly recently.

Not just yours. Sorry? Not just yours. Not just your DNA, but everyone else's.

Thom's would be useful for paternity suits. Is there a specific one for Thom? I crowdsource mine. So it has been breached in the past. Well, there was a recent case and the attack was basically focused around password spraying. And that was the thing, wasn't it? So if you broke into someone's account, you didn't just find out about them. Right. You could find out about their quote DNA relatives, other people. That's right. So those other people may have had completely unique passwords.

Yes. Although they would also have had to have opted in as well.

Yeah, they opted in as well to DNA Relatives, this feature, but maybe they had their accounts secured and weren't reusing passwords and all these other things, which 23andMe seem to be blaming people for having done.

So 23andMe's point is that it was technically a valid access of the accounts. Of those 14,000 accounts that were accessed, they were all valid logins because they were the correct username and the correct password. And they said, and we've also offered 2FA, but you haven't taken it up. You've, you know, a second factor of authentication, you can enable it. But in this instant these people did not use it.

Why wouldn't you make it the default? Well...

Exactly, make it mandatory. Yeah, exactly. So here's the thing, so on the one hand you got 23andMe making actually a fairly good point, you know, although they're kind of shouting into the void rather because the number of people out there who reuse passwords is quite high and I know a number of people who do that. But secondly, they really should be doing the utmost to protect their users' data. The reason they don't switch on 2FA is because it puts people off from logging in and therefore not spending money that they might have been spending with 23andMe. So it's effectively, it's a financial decision to ensure that people will continue to carry out logins and to spend more money and to have more tests done or offer tests to other people. So it's quite a cynical move, really, right?

Totally. It's basically saying, look, because we have a few idiots on this site, you know, that kind of ruined it for themselves, they're at fault.

But I have to say, and, you know, I am getting splinters from sitting on this fence. I have, you know, to be perfectly honest with you. Why are you sitting on a fence? Cheap thrills. I do kind of feel for 23andMe because it's like you bloody idiot why are you reusing your passwords why are you not using 2FA anyway you know it's kind of like people are offering their most sensitive data. You know I mean a social security number a credit card can all be replaced you know but your DNA is entirely unique to you and you're happy using the same password as you use to log into, you know, I don't know, Aunt Mabel's sugar candy store down the road. But you're happy just to use that stupid password there. It's asinine.

I don't think people know, though, that people don't think about it that way. People don't work in this industry. They don't consider any of that. They just say, oh, spit in a tube. Let's rock and roll. Let's see what happens. Woo!

Well, precisely. Yeah, absolutely. So 23andMe need to do a much better job of securing this data. They need to enforce the 2FA. But it wouldn't surprise me if there's a number of people out there saying, you know, literally sort of spluttering and pointing at the screen when they hear this and saying, that's exactly it. You know, it's not always down to the individual. There is an element of shared responsibility here.

But it's... Don't blame your customer. Seems to be a good one.

Okay, I'm going to be devil's advocate now. I'm going to agree with 23andMe. I think if I'd worked in their comms division, what I would have done is I said, look, we need to be quite aggressive with this. We need to push back. Because clearly, DNA data, really sensitive. It could have information about your predisposition to specific diseases. It could be data which is stolen, used later for unauthorised research or sold to third parties. There could be the emotional impact of finding out you're related to Thom Langford. Oh, no! Something deeply distressing like that right and so I think 23andMe should say to all of their users you're bloody idiots what are you doing giving your DNA to some corporation who you know are going to be reckless if not now but they will be in the future.

Some two-bit company exactly, a stupid...

Stupid company like us you're bloody idiots aren't you in fact we've don't have to look at DNA...

There is a huge opportunity here because we've now got the DNA of people who don't switch on 2FA. Let's find out what's unique about them. Let's find out the gene that makes them dumb enough to not switch on 2FA. Oh, stop it. And reuse passwords. I bet you there's a common strain there. I bet you.

I don't agree. Thom blamed the user. Shame and then we round them up call yourself a CISO.

Have a Venn diagram with listeners to the Host Unknown podcast perfect circle but...

The research possibilities here around...

Carole what's your topic for us this week?

Well why don't we open with what would be your dream job if you're not already doing it, Graham? What would be your dream job? Something you'd be good at, feel proud about, maybe make a bit of green.

My dream job, actually, Carole, probably correlates quite well with yours because I would love to be a modern artist.

I was going to say, I always thought you were a piss artist, so it's pretty similar.

I would love to be able to just spaff on a wall. You can. Dribble some paint. I'd just love to make a mess on a piece of paper and go to the Saatchi brothers and say, come on then, how many million are you going to give me for this? I just thought that would be fantastic.

Literally, some modern artists have literally just shat on the floor, called it modern art. So I think you can do that, even you. Here's my unmade...

bed. Here's my unmade bed. Your unmade bed would probably look like everybody else's made bed, in fact. That's what I would love to do. Thom, what about you? What would be your dream job? Do you know what? Right now, I think it would be maybe a photographer, a portraits photographer or something like that.

And you're working on that. You're a great photographer.

I think I'd like to go down there, but not have to rely on it for money, if I'm perfectly honest. Right. I know. Yeah, tell me. An independently wealthy photographer.

Totally. Yeah, that sounds fantastic. Fantastic. Well, what if I offered you the job of being a female impregnator? Your job, should you choose to do it, would be to service a company's client. And in this case, that's a woman who wants a baby, but doesn't have a man to do the job.

You know what? I mean, I've done it twice and it was really expensive. I'm still paying. I'll be terrible

at this because I have had the snip. So I think they're not going to pay me very much.

Don't tell them that though, Graham. You don't tell them that? You just say, oh, better try again. So our friend here, Mangesh Kumar, from India, he in December was perusing the popular platform known as Faceplant or Facebook. And he comes across this video, All India Pregnant Job Service. Oh, I thought you were going to say working from home.

And once I'll signed up, he will be sent the details of a woman he would be responsible for impregnating. And the service fee is sweet. So 500,000 rupees for sex and then a further 800,000 if the lady actually conceives. So in UK money, that's 5k for shagging and another 7,500 if it's a bullseye.

That's more than I normally charge. That's very good.

It's not bad for a few minutes of action, right? It's

a hit the target bonus.

Exactly. Hit the target bonus. Now, question. You know, would you take a turkey baster with you on one of these just in case?

No, because I want to have another shot. I mean, is it, what, three strikes and you're out? I don't know. I mean, I'd...

Is there any guarantee you're going to be... Let me, how do I put this delicately? Not so much make them pregnant, but be able to initiate the process.

Oh, you're worried about man problems, you mean? Shyness? Shyness, it's called. If you don't know the lady in question, you might be somewhat shy.

You might get shy, yeah. Maybe he doesn't like blondes or something. You might need a fluffer. You might have to split the cash with somebody. A fluffer. So Mr. Kumar says he's keen, right? Because he may not have a huge academic background, but he knows how to do the business. He does have a penis. He has a penis. So he gets this official looking agreement, a document entitled Baby Birth Agreement. And it sports Mr. Kumar's name, his photo and the photo of someone in a police uniform. and the fine print below reads pregnancy verification form. So he does all that. Now he's working for this Mumbai firm and this company is sending Mr Kumar photos of 78 women asking him to choose the one he would like to impregnate.

I thought you were saying 78-year-old women when you said that.

No, no, they can't get pregnant very easily, Graham.

Well, exactly, you know.

And also, given he's taking, you know. So he's got all of the equipment that he needs. Can he get a tax relief on that work equipment? Very interesting that you bring that up. So the plan, it seems, is the company would book a hotel room for him in the town, in Mr. Kumar's town. Lovely. Make it convenient, right?

Panic. Hide under the bed.

Basically, he turns his phone off for 10 days. Yeah,

Exactly. That sounds like you. La la la, la la la. That's right. You know they call them gullible I think desperate is really the word isn't it if you are... Oh, totally. Yes. Totally. Yeah. Exactly. How likely are people to actually go to the police and say, I've just been tricked into this? So all jokes aside, this guy is, you know, hands down to him for actually going to the police and saying he got scammed like this because the vast majority of people wouldn't. And, you know, it's yeah.

I love how they kind of, you know, they say, look, we need you to fuck for money and you can do good by giving a woman a child. Right. It has this kind of like I could father the world. You know.

You're virile. You are a virile man. You're proving how much of a man you are by siring lots of children, blah, blah, blah. I

I thought Elon Musk was doing this. Couldn't he sire a few more kids? And he wouldn't need the cash. He could do it for free. They've already arrested eight men, okay, seized mobile phones and a printer. And a printer.

I don't know. It was in the BBC article and I thought it was so cute. How do you think they could get the invoices? I mean, the printer's culpable. It's in on it. We know that they're sentient because they refuse to work when you absolutely need them to the most. So, you know, he's probably the ringleader.

If it's an HP printer, which is telling you that you need to order specific ink supplies, then it probably is slightly evil anyway, isn't it?

Yeah, exactly. Either that or it needed the money because it needed genuine. And I forgot the best bit. Let me just put the document in the show notes for you.

So Oprah Winfrey has signed this contract. Yes!

See, she's endorsed this as well. And I trust her way more than Elon Musk.

So, I mean, you don't get that rich from just selling books and being a chat show host. And

A baby for you and a baby for you and for you and for you and for you. This episode of Smashing Security is sponsored by Collide. Wouldn't it be great if a device which lacked compliance or lacked security was denied access to your organization's SaaS apps and other resources?

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I've got to say, I'm more impressed with this than percentages. So well done. Thom, what's your pick of the week? Okay, so I've got a thing called Spintronics, and I reckon your son would be into this as well. So what does every mother get her son who has everything for Christmas?

Yeah, I love the look of it. So your mum bought this for you, Thom. Yes, she did. She did. That's very kind. What a lovely mummy you've got.

Well, I don't I didn't look at the price. Well, I think your mum must quite like you, Thom. I think she, well, you know, I'm not a bad son. Did she buy you the epic bundle? I've got all three boxes, yes. Oh, blimey. Oh, so 156.24. No epic bundle, 212. So I know how much my mother loves me then, which is always good to put a number on it absolutely.

Okay Carole, what's your pick of the week?

Well, I'm gonna share my first knit pick. I think it's my first one. I think it is. So I've been on a rant of the week. It's kind of, it's just something that ticks me off and I want to know if you guys agree or disagree. So I've been on my own for the last few nights. The Yeti's been away and for some reason during late dinner time I started watching reality TV. I know. I know. I know. So I started watching the new Traitors with Claudia Winkleman. It's on the BBC, I think. Oh, yeah. It's basically, you know, it's the game Mafia. It's what I used to call it or a murder game. Yeah. Yeah. But only three shows are out. So, you know, I still had a few hours to kill. And then I started watching this new one on Netflix or new to me called Trust. And the premise is this. There's 250k on the table. And you've got, you know, If all the players, it's like a dozen players or 10 players, and if they all play nice, everyone leaves with their equal share. So 20, 25,000 quid. But contestants can also boot people off in order to grow their share of the pot, right? So split evenly or cut each other out to raise your take. So interesting premise, right? I'm thinking that's kind of cool. The scenario. Interesting. And this is my nitpick of the week because there's a huge but coming. Right. Let's hear your huge but. There's all these adult humans, right, that have requested to be on the show, presumably, people like you and me, if you were that inclined. But my question is why do they have to jump around acting overexcited and shrieky all the time? I mean, who does that?

I can answer this. So I know somebody who works in a production company, and I think it was one of the Channel 4 ones, Come Dine with Me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a friend of theirs said, oh, you should put me on Come Dine with Me because I'm a terrible cook and I think it'd be really, really funny. And this person said, I'm sorry, but you're too normal. What? They choose these people. You see? They choose these unhinged people that should, you know, it's frankly an indictment for care in the community. But they choose these people because they are utterly off their rockers. But it's just annoying because I kind of like the premise. I kind of want to ogle at people who would choose to go do this and see what they do. I don't want—

That's what they're peddling, isn't it? Yeah. They're peddling that, except they're getting their freaking oars in there and going, let's make them more excited and get freaks and make them shriek all the time. Yeah, that's exactly what they're doing. That's what it is. It is like a Victorian freak show, isn't it? It's like the carnival. They're just collecting people. Well, OK, I'm just saying I spent some time in reality, Phil. I didn't like it. My nitpick of the week is it could be so much better.

Yeah, yeah, I like Gogglebox. Oh, don't pretend you don't know what it is.

No, no, I've never watched it, honestly. I've watched five minutes, but really not my show. But it doesn't seem that they – those people are freaks as well, I'm guessing, the people they do on the show.

No, no, not all of them. I quite like Giles and Mary. They're lovely.

Are they the couple that drink?

No, but they're freakish in the sense that their relationship is very bizarre anyway. You know, but she's – well.

But exactly, it's fascinating, right? If we can watch people watching TV and find it entertaining I just think these reality TV shows could just sit back and let it happen as opposed to trying to manipulate everything and that is my nitpick of the week.

Didn't George Orwell say something about it being the end of society? You know, people watching other people degrade themselves?

He did have things to say about Big Brother but I don't think you've realized it quite turned out the way it has. Well on the bombshell that Thom Langford has been criticised for being too normal. Oh no it wasn't me. Oh it wasn't you. It wasn't you who's too normal. I found it hard to believe that to be honest but we just about wrap up our show for this week Thom. I'm sure lots of our listeners would love to follow you online and find out what you're up to. What is the best way for folks to do that? Oh I am Thom Langford with an H because Twitter wouldn't let me have an H. It's on Twitter X or Mastodon and also vaguely on threads, but not so much.

Why not go there this time? Working on his dream job. Fancy.

And you can follow us on Twitter, Smashing Security. No G, Twitter allows to G. We also are on Mastodon. And don't forget to ensure you never miss another episode of the show. Follow Smashing Security in your favourite podcast apps such as Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Overcast. And a gazillion thank yous to our episode sponsors, Fanta and Collide. And of course, to our wonderful Patreon community. It's thanks to them all this show is free.

Until next time, cheerio. Bye bye. Bye bye. Ta-ta.

Can I tell you something? So a friend of mine was doing a long drive over the Christmas holidays, and they banged on Smashing Security. We just came up, I guess, maybe in their play or queue or whatever. And he says to me, he was like, you know, it's not a bad show. You guys are pretty professional. Surprised. So thank you, Ollie.

Oh, Ollie said that, did he? Ollie's been on the show. He was a guest. Bastard. But about 20 years ago. Funny.

Thank you, Thom. Thom, you're a rock star. Absolute pleasure. We appreciate you doing it. We know you're a busy fella. It's always a joy, always a joy.